Topless Dexta!

Bill Cox · Post by **Bill Cox** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:35 pm

While waiting for advice on my auxiliary services valve leak problem I went ahead and pulled the hydraulic control cover. The disassembly went well except for a rookie mistake on my part. Not only did I remove the perimeter bolts that attach the cover, I also removed the bolts that attach the lift cylinder assembly to the cover. Fortunately, I was able to get everything out of the housing without breaking anything, and as far as I can tell, all of the O rings are accounted for and no parts fell down into the lower case.

Unless Fordson used bent galvanized finish nails in lieu of split pins, someone has had the top off in the past :roll: There is a bent nail in place of a split pin securing a pin in one of the linkages.

If all goes well today, I hope to check and make the adjustments to the lift cover components this afternoon after work.

The unnumbered "pin" that is the subject of much discussion on this site appears to be in very good shape. Does the wear on this pin occur where it contacts the plate with the half round notch in it? If so, I would guess that I should remove the nut holding the plate and check the pin for wear?

Thanks for any and all advice and suggestions.

Post by **Brian** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:32 pm

The pin runs on the cam where the connecting rod pushess on the lift arm cross shaft. It is only in contact when you sellect Position control.

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:16 pm

Bill,
Can you post some pics?
That would be appreciated as I'm plucking up courage to go in

Thanks,
Ben

Bill Cox · Post by **Bill Cox** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:50 pm

Ben,

I will try to get some shots and post them. I gave my wife a digital camera a couple of years ago, and if it will do the job, I'll post them this weekend or the first of next week. It's looking like I won't be able to work on it again until Friday.

Bill Cox · Post by **Bill Cox** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:34 am

First off, I managed to get the yoke off without damaging anything.

As promised, here are some photos:

This is when I first took the lift case off. Before I took it off, I stenciled the bolt heads 1-12 starting in the front right corner and heading around. I didn't take a picture of the stenciled bolt heads.

Here is the lift cylinder.

Here is the broken piston O ring.

Here are the weapons I used to get the yoke off.

Here are the victims!

The case with the yoke off and the guts still in. If you notice, I used an old wooden bench that I had to hold the case. I screwed it down with some 5/16 lag bolts with oversize washers. It worked pretty good and I didn't have to worry about the machined surfaces against the soft pine wood.

Here is the rod without the yoke! The gold looking stuff is anti-seize compound.

Can you see the finish nail someone use instead of a split pin?

The guts.

The lift control handle, etc.

Gutted!

That pesky cam follower pin (CFP).

Wear on the pin.

The future of the yoke and other items

The final maneuver for the day.

I will be getting the CFP pressed out and replace sometime this week and then the reinstall will commence. I'll take some shots of the lower case and the old girl when I reassemble. It was 98 F here today and I got hot!

Post by **Brian** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:10 am

Great pictures Bill.

Your pin needs to be a bit longer as all the wear is on the edge rather than towards the middle. Gerald (Tubal Cain) has posted all the pin specifications in the archives.

OT Question.

Were "archives" where Noah kept the bees?

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:58 am

Bill,
Good pics - an inspiration.
Look forward to seeing more.
Thanks

Ben

Bill Cox · Post by **Bill Cox** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:20 pm

Thanks for the kind comments.

Now a question for Brian:

I noticed an oval shaped area of wear on the surface of the control valve actuating lever 957E-504 where it is contacted by the position control rod 957E-683. The wear is approx. 5/16" x 1/2" and is 1/64" deep at the deepest point. It doesn't look all that bad, but if you tell me it is important to do so, I can build it up and grind it smooth. Here is the photo:

Mervyn Spencer · Post by **Mervyn Spencer** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:36 pm

Hello Bill

While your piston is out please can you tell me whether there is only one rubber ring or two. The piston that I removed from a spare top that I have had two rubber rings, so am wondering whether that was a year related change?

Best regards
Mervyn

Bill Cox · Post by **Bill Cox** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:50 pm

Hello Mervyn,

There is only one.

I decided to shoot more photos. Here are several views of the piston:

The stamped number on the piston top is 301063 which I take to be the date it was manufactured, as I can find no part number to match in my parts manual. I'm guessing it means the 30th day of the 10th month 1963 (more about the date after the photos).

My machine is a Super Dexta. The axle housing casting numbers indicate that they were cast in April 1964. That would mean the machine was assembled between April 64 and end of production in October 64. So a late 1963 date for the piston seems reasonable. I can't guarantee, however, that all of the parts in the old girl are original.

There is a number stamped into the lift cylinder housing, 3E31A. I cannot find a corresponding number for a part in my manual. Maybe one of the members has an idea?

Post by **Brian** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:44 am

Bill,
The area on the link should be flat and smooth so it could do with being either ground down flat or built up.

The piston seal was originally a lipped one not an "O" ring. The "O" ring and backing washer of either leather or nylon was introduced in the 2-3000 range here in England. It seems to be what is being offered as replacement for the piston seal on the Dexta range now.

When I replaced my lipped seal in Henrietta, the seal supplier made me a seal especially for her for £11.00 and said it would last another 50 +years. I said I would not be too bothered then.

Bill Cox · Post by **Bill Cox** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:06 pm

Thanks Brian. It will be much easier to polish the lever down a 64th than build it up.

New question:

"O" ring and backing washer

When I removed the piston, the only other component in the cylinder was the broken O ring pictured above. I was going to take a photo of the label on the overhaul kit I got from the Ford place and post it, but I can't find it. The kit contains a flat round gasket of some sort that I am thinking is the backing washer you mention. It looks a lot like item #4132 on the Agriline site http://www.agrilineproducts.com/retail% ... logue.html which is described as "Piston Seal Back Up Ring".

All that said, I think I have the part, but where does it go? It doesn't look flexible enough to get into the groove on the piston with the O ring. The books that I have talk about the older style and the "gland". The newer parts book I have lists the O ring as a change but the drawing doesn't show it.

Post by **Brian** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:14 pm

Soak it in oil, if its the leather one and carefully fit it over the piston and one side into the groove then work round. It will go a bit floppy but when you put the "O" ring into place it will tighten up.

When fitting the piston back it will be very tight. You may need some sort of clamp like one used to fit piston rings to get it back into the bore. I have done it more times than I care to remember with a soft mallet (either wood or rubber} and a small screwdriver to keep pushing the ring in.

The nylon one fits the same way if it is a solid one. Another type has an angled cut in it so goes on easily and a further version is like a spiral spring which again fits easily.

Plenty of oil helps too.

Bill Cox · Post by **Bill Cox** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:46 pm

Thanks again Brian.

I have a couple of piston ring compressor tools for various size pistons. The small one I use on lawnmower engine pistons should work if needed.

I'm really glad this subject came up.

Mervyn Spencer · Post by **Mervyn Spencer** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:43 pm

Hi Bill

Thanks for the pics. I have just looked at the piston that I have and the number is 19 07 63. What puzzels me is the fact that it has two rubber rings with a spacing of about a half an inch between them.

Hopefully someone can give me an answer?

Regards
Mervyn

Lesfen · Post by **Lesfen** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:37 am

Great photos, Bill!

There is a number stamped into the lift cylinder housing, 3E31A.

Just a guess but if the stamped number was for an assembly or casting date and followed the same format as the newer casting codes it might be 1963 May 31 with the A being the shift (night?) it was cast or assembled?
Or...not...!?

Les

Post by **Brian** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:40 am

Mervyn,
All the Dextas that I have worked on had a lipped seal on the piston. The groove for them was fairly wide, about 12 mm. The 2/3000 had the same size piston but had the "O" ring and backing washer seal. On these the groove was about 8-10mm.

The earlier tractors like the '00 series in the US used the "O" ring system so I am told and as the Dexta lift is a developement from this, it is possible that over there, the same piston as the earlier tractors was used. Certainly that is what is used as spare parts.

I would suspect that your tractor has the wide seal groove and someone has just fitted "O" rings instead of the proper seal.

Just re read your post. You mean there are two seperate ring grooves? That sounds like a non standard piston, it is neither original or replacement 2/3000.

Bill Cox · Post by **Bill Cox** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:36 pm

Brian,

When I got home from work yesterday, I examined the round "gasket" that came with the overhaul kit. It turns out that it is in fact made of leather. I was jammed for time, but I put it in a wide-mouth jar lid and have it soaking in a 1/4" of 30W Rotella T. I will fit it and make by new 5/16" in dia by 7/8" long CFP this evening after work.

Thanks again for the heads up on the backup ring. I checked my parts manual last night and the ring is listed in the parts list immediately after the O ring but is not shown in the drawing.

Mervyn Spencer · Post by **Mervyn Spencer** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:59 pm

Brian

I have emailed you a pic of the piston just to clear things up.

Bill, sorry if I have gatecrashed your topic, I can start a new thread if necessary.

Kind regards
Mervyn

Bill Cox · Post by **Bill Cox** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:18 am

Not at all, Mervyn. The more, the merrier. Didn't get any Dexta work done today.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:27 pm

Hi Mervyn,

If it wouldn't be to troublesome I'd like to see a picture of your piston. I am going to take mine apart latter in the year, and who knows I may have the same one you have.

Post by **Brian** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:29 am

I have never seen another piston like Mervyn has. I think it was a special/prototype. I very much doubt you would have one like it Mark.

Mervyn Spencer · Post by **Mervyn Spencer** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:30 pm

Hello Brian

Thanks for putting my picture of the piston up for Mark. If you don't recognise it Brian I don't think there is anybody else who will.

Regards
Mervyn

Bill Cox · Post by **Bill Cox** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:35 pm

Well gang, I just picked up the soft parts that I ordered: quadrant friction disk, quadrant to lift case gasket and Qualitrol spring seat felt. I may start the reassembly tomorrow. Regardless of when I start, I'll try to take lots of pictures.

A Brian question:

Are you supposed to oil the Qualitrol spring felt? It looks like the kind of thing you would soak in oil.

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:23 pm

Bill,
Have you dismantled your auxiliary services port? I see you have detached the flow control rod to the quadrant.
Thanks for a great thread,
Ben

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