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Water Pump Studs
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:56 pm
by Bensdexta
The Parts List shows the water pump as being held on by nuts and 5/16"dia studs threaded into the timing case cover.
However, my replacement pump comes with bolts:
What fixing do other folk's water pumps have? Is there any problem with using the bolts?
Or will their use eventually damage the threads in the softer aluminium of the timing case cover?
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:25 am
by ddoan
Hi Ben,
Whether you strip out the aluminum cover with cap screws or not depends on how careful you are. My thought is that cap screws make removing and installing the water pump more difficult. As you can see by my photo, slipping the water pump onto stud bolts is simpler. Also, there is minimal clearance - because of the pulley - to insert cap screws. In the case of the lower right hole, you really have to work at getting a cap screw in.
Since you have all of the specifications, I think I'd opt for securing the original type of fasteners.
Don
Water Pump Stud Bolts
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:31 am
by Bensdexta
Don,
Thanks for your advice.
I notice that the diameter of the pulley on my replacement AGPO water pump is about 4 1/2", greater than my original at about 3 3/4". In fact two of the cap screws cannot be removed from the new pump as they foul the pulley.
I think I'll try and source some stud bolts like yours.
BTW your pump looks original - did you refurb it??
Thanks again,
All the best
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:05 pm
by Mervyn Spencer
Hi Ben
Are you sure that is a Dexta pump and not a Ferguson pump? I recall the pump I removed from my Dexta had capped bolts and the outlet pipes where at different angles. My new Dexta pump which I bought from Sparex had no bolts in at all, hence the use of the studs which I bought locally.
Kind regards
Mervyn
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:47 pm
by ddoan
Ben,
My Dexta is a '59, so it might differ from your '61. In any event the casting number on my pump's housing is 0080268. The diameter of the pulley is 4" - not 4 1/2."
I did not do a thorough restoration of the water pump, although it was frozen with rust. I soaked its internals with PB Blaster for a few days and little by little, it began to rotate. Now, it rotates freely with no noise. I also wire brushed the exterior and soaked it in phosphoric acid before priming and painting.
I figure I'll get the tractor running and see if the pump gives me any trouble. It's not all that difficult to replace or restore if I have to. I've learned that most of these old parts are better than new, replacement parts, so I stick with them until the bitter end.
Don
Original Water Pump
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:52 pm
by Bensdexta
ddoan wrote:My Dexta is a '59, so it might differ from your '61. In any event the casting number on my pump's housing is 0080268. The diameter of the pulley is 4" - not 4 1/2."
....
I've learned that most of these old parts are better than new, replacement parts, so I stick with them until the bitter end.
Don,
My original pump has the same casting number as yours. It does turn OK, but folk said better to get a new one that attempt to restore an old one. So I'll be interested to see how you get on with restoring yours
The new AGPO one I got from Agriline fits OK and was sold as being for a Dexta - no idea if it's the same as a Fergie one.
All the best,
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:56 pm
by Dunggatherer
Be careful though.
I bought one of those new pumps,and it also came with bolts.
One of them was too long,if i would have tightened it,it would probably have cracked the timing cover.
So i cut it to length,no problem.
The pump is good by the way.
Good luck!
Rob.
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:03 am
by Bensdexta
Dunggatherer wrote:Be careful though.
I bought one of those new pumps,and it also came with bolts.
One of them was too long,if i would have tightened it,it would probably have cracked the timing cover.
So i cut it to length,no problem.
The pump is good by the way.
Yes thanks for the warning.
I cut about 4mm off the end of the long cap screw, top right hand hole, so it does up properly.
Glad to hear the pump is OK
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:23 am
by Bensdexta
It occurs to me that if the water pump is attached using the 'original' arrangement with studs, it will be much harder to fit the by-pass hose than with the cap screws. It may mean removing the thermostat housing and fitting the hose after the pump.
All the best,
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:28 am
by Tubal Cain
If you are fitting a new pump, make sure that you also fit the brass plate between the pump and the timing case to prevent corrosion or erosion of the aluminium.
Gerald
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:03 am
by EddieJ
Tubal Cain wrote:If you are fitting a new pump, make sure that you also fit the brass plate between the pump and the timing case to prevent corrosion or erosion of the aluminium.
Gerald
A good example of the timing cover aluminum corrosion is on our super dexta in this thread:
http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb ... php?t=1518
We now have some brass plate to make a new backplate which cost less than £10 from a local small volume metal dealer
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:12 am
by YorkshireDextaMan
EddieJ wrote:Tubal Cain wrote:If you are fitting a new pump, make sure that you also fit the brass plate between the pump and the timing case to prevent corrosion or erosion of the aluminium.
Iv'e just got one of those water pump back plates from Agriline and its Plastic.
A good example of the timing cover aluminum corrosion is on our super dexta in this thread:
http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb ... php?t=1518
We now have some brass plate to make a new backplate which cost less than £10 from a local small volume metal dealer
Re: Water Pump Bolts
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:45 am
by Bensdexta
The Parts List shows the water pump as being held on by nuts and 5/16"dia studs threaded into the timing case cover.
However, my replacement pump came with cap screws:
What fixing do other folk's water pumps have? Is there any problem with using the bolts?
Or will their use eventually damage the threads in the softer aluminium of the timing case cover?
Re: Water Pump Bolts
Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:02 am
by tom lad
hi
what have u done in the end m8 ?
Re: Water Pump Bolts
Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:04 pm
by Tubal Cain
When facing the tractor the top right hand stud for the water pump is designed to be longer than the other three, as it passes through the timing cover and screws into the timing case! The remaining three studs screw into tapped holes in the timing cover.
Incidentally the photo in the first post shows hexagon headed bolts not cap screws. Which should be 5/16" UNC, a coarse thread screwing into aluminium, a fine thread would have a tendency to strip.
Gerald
Re: Water Pump Bolts
Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:52 am
by Bensdexta
Tubal Cain wrote:When facing the tractor the top right hand stud for the water pump is designed to be longer than the other three, as it passes through the timing cover and screws into the timing case! The remaining three studs screw into tapped holes in the timing cover.
Incidentally the photo in the first post shows hexagon headed bolts not cap screws. Which should be 5/16" UNC, a coarse thread screwing into aluminium, a fine thread would have a tendency to strip.
Gerald,
Thanks for pointing out that the top right bolt is longer as it passes through the timing cover into the case itself. Thus the Parts List is incorrect as it says that both top studs are the same (Item 22 in the diag) with length 2.1/8". As Gerald points out the top RH stud needs to be longer, at 2.11/16”
Also the parts list shows a bolt at the left lower hole (item 23) instead of a stud. But I see no reason for this, as a 2.1/8” stud fits fine.
Also the parts list says that the lower right stud (item 21) is 1.1/16" long – clearly a mistake. Again a 2.1/8” stud works fine here.
In conclusion I believe there should be three studs 2.1/8” long and one stud 2.11/16” long. All studs are 5/16” dia. The ends that thread into the timing case are UNC with the threaded portion ½” long. The other ends are UNF with the threaded portion 3/4” long.
So it looks like someone at Dagenham had an off day.
One final Q:
Why does the parts list specify for the upper studs a washer, ‘Shakeproof, Internal Tooth’ but for the lower ones, a ‘lock washer’ (ie a spring washer)?
Re: Water Pump Studs
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:53 am
by Bensdexta
tom lad wrote:what have u done in the end m8 ?
Got three 2nd hand studs from Hipperson's and Bertie Dunlop made me a long one, to make up a set of four:
The parts list is incorrect.
All studs are 5/16"dia, as follows:
Short studs: overall length 2.1/8", UNC thread 1/2" long, UNF thread 3/4" long.
Long stud: overall length 3", UNC thread 1.1/4" long, UNF 3/4" long.