Pipe - oil pump to oil pan 957E-6613-B

[derridge]

I am undertaking an engine rebuild and have discovered a crack in the pipe that takes oil from the oil pan (sump) to the oil pump. Rather than carry out a repair I would like to repalce the pipe with either a new one or a good condition second hand one. I have tried the "usual" suppliers for a new one but with no luck. I would be very grateful if anyone can point me in the right direction for either a new or second hand one.

All the best

Dave

[Kiwi Kev]

Dave

Welcome to the board. We love to see pictures of members tractors, so pictures are always welcome too.

Why do you not wish to repair it? You say it has a crack, so I take it that it is not broken in 2 pieces.
A good repair job can be, and should be, as good as when it was new.

A good condition second hand one can still have heirline cracks in it, and would only be a last resort if it were mine.

I would always spend money to repair something, instead of spending money to buy something second hand, which may still need repairing.

Hope this helps
Kiwi Kev

[YorkshireDextaMan]

I am undertaking an engine rebuild and have discovered a crack in the pipe that takes oil from the oil pan (sump) to the oil pump. Rather than carry out a repair I would like to repalce the pipe with either a new one or a good condition second hand one. I have tried the "usual" suppliers for a new one but with no luck. I would be very grateful if anyone can point me in the right direction for either a new or second hand one.

All the best

Dave

I think a bit would depend on wether you replace the oil pump. And if you are rebuilding an engine then you should. Now the thing here is a new pump would be a little different to the original (Ford come Perkins) and the pipes don't fit , You have to do it which ever way you can, but i would go to your nearest MF dealer and order two new pipes for a 3.152 engine as fitted to a MF135. can be a bit pricey , there are other ways to do it as someone else may tell you, Jim.

[russelm]

I think a bit would depend on wether you replace the oil pump. And if you are rebuilding an engine then you should. Now the thing here is a new pump would be a little different to the original (Ford come Perkins) and the pipes don't fit , You have to do it which ever way you can, but i would go to your nearest MF dealer and order two new pipes for a 3.152 engine as fitted to a MF135. can be a bit pricey , there are other ways to do it as someone else may tell you, Jim.

Interesting, I stripped mine down, cleaned it and measured the clearnaces and despite being original, it was well within spec.

Should I still change it or go with what appears to be good?

[Brian]

I would only replace a worn pump. If it is within the specs. then it is OK.

[YorkshireDextaMan]

I think a bit would depend on wether you replace the oil pump. And if you are rebuilding an engine then you should. Now the thing here is a new pump would be a little different to the original (Ford come Perkins) and the pipes don't fit , You have to do it which ever way you can, but i would go to your nearest MF dealer and order two new pipes for a 3.152 engine as fitted to a MF135. can be a bit pricey , there are other ways to do it as someone else may tell you, Jim.

Interesting, I stripped mine down, cleaned it and measured the clearnaces and despite being original, it was well within spec.

Should I still change it or go with what appears to be good?

Well ok thats fine, look at it this way, Dave is rebuilding his Dexta engine right, and so it perhaps has done x-number of hours, (enough to need a rebuild) (so has the oil pump), The engine is then expected to do another x-number of hours, (3000 plus) so the oil pump... i rest my case. Jim

[Brian]

If its within the specs laid down by the manufacture, no matter how old, no matter what the condition of the engine, it must be OK. The engine could have been damaged by the use of ether. This would not affect the oil pump.

I have repaired many, many engines and found oil pumps within the specs laid down by the manufacturer.

[YorkshireDextaMan]

If its within the specs laid down by the manufacture, no matter how old, no matter what the condition of the engine, it must be OK. The engine could have been damaged by the use of ether. This would not affect the oil pump.

I have repaired many, many engines and found oil pumps within the specs laid down by the manufacturer.

Brian , my comment (and my comments on other subjects) are how i see things, "The way it it with me" if you like. and i can appreciate how others view things as well. In this case it's about an oil pump, Let's just say " if it's within the specs laid down by the manufacturer" to me that would say it could (or can) have some wear, so why for the sake of £36 (plus the price of the pipes) if needed, would you not have an oil pump that was 100% good, and everything else considered a guaranteed 40 plus psi oil preasure, We re-ringed and did crank jobs on many Major engines and my old Mentor used to reckon if the oil pump picked up parrafin it was ok. Now a days i view things in a more tec way, "TTWIIWM"

[Brian]

I look at it differently.

The manufacturer lays down specifications for components. If they measure up within those specs. why change them. An oil pump drives normally at half engine speed, if the oil is kept clean and the filter changed, it should last for years.

I too was trained with the bucket of paraffin testing method but also used a mic.feeler gauge and mechanics blue on the components. So we will differ on our priorities.

I find it more worrying that engines are rebuilt after many hours without the crank or camshaft being ground or checked for wear. These are the areas which the tractors wear faster than oil pumps.

[russelm]

Sorry to have stirred up a bit of a hornets nest.

I am with Brian though, the measurement checks should give a good level of confidence as to the state of the part (hence why I did it). Plus, hust because a part is new does not mean it works correctly hence in some cases, better the devil you know.

Fortunately my cam is in great nick (no wear, a little oil stain which has polished off) but the crank has some pitting where its een stood for years with the pistons, rods and head off (although it was inside) so thats getting ground.

[YorkshireDextaMan]

Sorry to have stirred up a bit of a hornets nest.

I am with Brian though, the measurement checks should give a good level of confidence as to the state of the part (hence why I did it). Plus, hust because a part is new does not mean it works correctly hence in some cases, better the devil you know.

Fortunately my cam is in great nick (no wear, a little oil stain which has polished off) but the crank has some pitting where its een stood for years with the pistons, rods and head off (although it was inside) so thats getting ground.

Not at all Mark. respect everyones views, Have to say i serviced a number of Dexta's ,but never did alot of repairs on them, i left the Fordson Dealership before the Dexta's got any age on them. Lot's of Majors and DB, though. My recent experiance with Dexta is the two i have brought back to life, in the last 18 months, and both the oil pumps were worn in the shaft ,so i never striped them down,
Sounds like you will have your hands full restoring yours for quite a while, Jim

[derridge]

Many thanks to all of you for your comments. Regarding the repair of the pipe I would have liked to have undertaken a repair by "sleeving" it but the crack is too near the attachment bracket to do this. A sleeve of some sort will need to be used still working out the best way of doing it and still searching for the elusive "new" one The reason for the rebuild is seized shells on number 3 - they have seized to the crank and the thought is that with the pipe cracked it was sucking more air than oil, which caused the damage. If this is the case it is real shame as the engine had been rebuilt prior to me acquiring the tractor - the thought here is that the pipe was damaged when the sump was lifted on. Regarding the oil pump I agree that if equipment is within manufactures limits then why replace it, but having said that, as it is such a critical component and a pain to get to I will be fitting a new one. There is probably no right answer and I guess it depends on what makes you feel "comfortable".

Again thanks again.

Dave

[russelm]

Can you not braze the pipe?

My worry on the oil pump is how good the replacements are.....

[YorkshireDextaMan]

Can you not braze the pipe?

My worry on the oil pump is how good the replacements are.....

Mark, why would a replacement oil pump not be up to standard, Not to forget aswell a new oil pump to fit a Dexta comes with the new type Presure relief valve.
I got a new one from a Guy (PE) and it was same as the OE as suplied to Simpson engines, They build diesel engines in India (not sure if their under licence from Perkins) but they follow the Perkins pattern . I fitted another one which i got of a well known Ebay shop and in both cases i got 60psi. at start up on my engines, Jim

[Jerry Coles]

If an oil pump was worn through normal use then how much of a pressure drop would you expect? Surely the PRV would maintain a constant oil pressure irrespective of pump wear. Without a PRV then the oil pressure will be proportional to the pump/engine speed which is why its there.
If your main bearings have worn over the same period then any drop in oil pressure could be down to this wear too.
Unless somebody is prepared to experiment with every combination of new/worn pump, PRV and bearings who knows what wear where and when will affect the oil pressure.
You should have of course logged the oil pressure with everything new before using the engine.
IMHO
Jerry

[russelm]

Can you not braze the pipe?

My worry on the oil pump is how good the replacements are.....

Mark, why would a replacement oil pump not be up to standard, Not to forget aswell a new oil pump to fit a Dexta comes with the new type Presure relief valve.
I got a new one from a Guy (PE) and it was same as the OE as suplied to Simpson engines, They build diesel engines in India (not sure if their under licence from Perkins) but they follow the Perkins pattern . I fitted another one which i got of a well known Ebay shop and in both cases i got 60psi. at start up on my engines, Jim

Hi Jim

14 years experience in manufacturing quality tells me that new does not mean good, reliable or even a guarantee that it will work. In fact new is an extra unknown in the melting pot.

Having bought a brand new head and had (major) issues plus a few other new parts which are clearly lower spec than the originals I have taken the approach of check and measure (on the new as well as the old!).