The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

Good morning, Ive got a problem with the steering. It has a bit of play at the top of the steering shaft, which makes the steering wheel seem almost loose (obviously it isnt) So i took the steering wheel off and the diesel tank off and took the top shaft cover off. If I tightened the top shaft onto the threaded bar going into the steering box the play disappeared, but it came back again when I tried to steer the tractor. I noticed there was a shim, so I took that out, so now there is no play and it steers but its very tight and screeches which obviously isnt right. Before i touched it, it did steer and was fairly light but had the play at the top of the shaft.
I know you can buy the steering top shaft repair kit, which you get the bearing, oil seal etc. Would this fix my problem? Or is it something inside the steering box itself?

Have a search on here, there's several threads on this site and the old site, as it's a well worn topic, eg http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb ... f=3&t=3388
See also Stefan's description on fordson-dexta.de, very useful.
All the best.

Thanks for that link ben, very helpful! It seems i need a top shaft repair kit and a bit of milling etc to be done, we will see!

Nick wrote:Thanks for that link ben, very helpful! It seems i need a top shaft repair kit and a bit of milling etc to be done, we will see!

Suggest you take the plunge and strip your box. If it's like mine, it will be full of grit at the bottom. Hopefully reshimming top and bottom will tighten it up.

A word of warning on the top nut repair kits, I'm told there are at least 6 different manufacturers and some are better than others. I called by Agriline this week with my steering worm shaft and old top nut, and we tried four different top nuts. Some were OK, others looser than my original one. Another problem is that the size of the ball race may not be correct, which gives problems shimming the top. Agriline told me to phone next week when they will have some that are being machined to the proper size race. So I woudn't buy a 'repair kit' just yet. Hopefully they will come up with a good product.

Ah, ok I may wait a bit. Thing is, its almost like something is bent, because the steering wheel and top shaft seem to go round very un-evenly, like its been hit at some time because this is whats causing the problem. Basicly as you turn the wheel, whatever is bent is pushing the top race of the bearing up one side and its getting tight. I suppose taking the box apart is not too bad is it?

It sounds like the symptoms of a failed ball or a pitted race on the top nut

In all fairness there is very little play in the steering box itself. When the top cover is off the steering shaft the top race of the bearing is very loose, i may try getting a bearing made up at a specialist bearing and seal company near me and see if that makes any difference.
What did confuse me a bit, was the ball bearings themselves dont seem to fill the races up, you could almost get another one if not two in. I have counted them and there is 15 there, so could they be warn?

You will pobably find that both the tracks and the ball bearings are worn. The balls become oval after a time.

The cheapest solution is to obtain 15 x 5/16" dia. steel balls and see if the steering improves. Failing that your next bet is to obtain a new nut.

Steel ball bearings are available on the internet.

Gerald

I got my 5/16" bearings from a bicycle shop (the old style shop, not national stores).
Cheers
Jerry
Bath
UK

Or 8mm ones which are within 0.06mm of 5/16

Well ive bought some 8mm ball bearings off ebay for £6, so we will see if it improves when they turn up. The old ball bearings are all pitted and funny shapes, but we'll see. Thanks for your help guys i will let you know how i get on

Ive recieved the new ball bearings and put them in, no different! It is a bit smoother but still gets very tight and squeals, but like i said when the wheels are off the ground the steering goes round no problem, as soon as the wheels are on the floor, it gets tight and squeals, like metal is touching metal. I took the top cover off and you can see where the top race of the bearing is being pushed up and is rubbing the bottom of the cover, strange isnt it?!

Have you adjusted the top plate with the shims correctly?

The fact the top plate is moving tells me its not tight as it this that stops the top race moving.

Well i only have one shim, so am i correct in thinking that the shims have to equal the amount the top of the bearing sticks up above the steering column? I guess you cant buy the shims anymore, so could i make some out of gasket paper?

Well ive found something which would go with my theory. I took the steering shaft main nut off, and span it in a lathe. It seems to be bent, so would this cause the bearing in the top shaft to go tight?

Yes it is ok to make sim of paper or gasket, or even a plastboxtop... but do find out one of two thing about it; one; if it is to "tight" to turn around...you have to put sim (or gasket - paper,s) only on top of steering shaft... if the steering feel loose or not steady, you have to put gasket or shim only at the ballbearing-collar, so it tighten up the balls. OOPS... when you buy new ball,s or so...it is most possible that it is 16 balls in the plastbag, but you have to only use 15pc. This is for give enough place side by side for the balls around the "topcollar" )
-It is also good to pick out every part from the topshaft for washing and cleaning it - check it for worn,s - and for smear it up again with grease too. mostly you can also change the topshaftseal too. (When mounting this parts again...it is best to set the shaft about 2 1/4 rpm fom one side)

mikkel

Any advice on the best way to fit new rocker shaft oil seals? I'm concerned that forcing the splines through the seal may damage it?

Is it best to fit the seals before or after installing the rocker shafts?

Hi, my methode is that the side seals can be picked out with a hook (you make it yourself) when the sideseal,s is out, and the rocker is cleaned, you easily can feel how condition "worn or not" the bussing are. If they are ok?? you not need to take moore parts of... remont the new sideseals with alitle grease insides and knock it in with a pipe.

mikkel

And again; it is correct to use 15 balls...becouse each ball will have four points to touch; the 1 upper collar, and 2 down collar, and 3 upper edg of rocker, and 4 dowedg of rocker.
If you are to use 16 balls?? it will only be touch side by sides of the balls and not right places on the upper and down collar, and your steering will feel "slingring" (not steady) it is the size on the balls who make the number of balls, and it is very importen to get the "four touchpoints" then. Therfor is my opinion that it is easy to get the steering correct, at the end.

mikkel

One more question, 60ft.lbs (81NM) seems a lot of torque for the rocker bolts! My nerve has given out at 60Nm.

Bensdexta wrote:One more question, 60ft.lbs (81NM) seems a lot of torque for the rocker bolts! My nerve has given out at 60Nm.

woow... I did,nt know it was so much but I think yours bolts will hold. when I tighten tis nut I regulary use a big wrench and think I,am feeling it by myself then.
I hope you talk about the two big nut,s from the steering rocker,s ??then

mikkel

Nick wrote:Ive recieved the new ball bearings and put them in, no different! It is a bit smoother but still gets very tight and squeals, but like i said when the wheels are off the ground the steering goes round no problem, as soon as the wheels are on the floor, it gets tight and squeals, like metal is touching metal. I took the top cover off and you can see where the top race of the bearing is being pushed up and is rubbing the bottom of the cover, strange isnt it?!

Nick, your prob,s is most likely in the front axle, and you have to pick out your spindle becouse there is some collar in the bottom of the spindleshaft, "underneth". It is easy to check...and while you try to bend the spindelrocker from side to side in "freeposition" you also will get info about your bussing,s in the axleshaft too.

mikkel

I had poor steering and wheel wobble.
It was cured by replacing the Radius Rod bolts that go through the yoke. These were the same size as the wing mounting bolts.
My old bolts looked like crankshafts!
I had a similar problem on my old E27N which required the reaming out the axle and radius rod holes and fitting over size bolts (I think the Old 20 parts did them).

Cheers
Jerry Coles
Bath
UK

blue32 wrote:

Bensdexta wrote:One more question, 60ft.lbs (81Nm) seems a lot of torque for the rocker bolts! My nerve has given out at 60Nm.

woow... I did'nt know it was so much but I think yours bolts will hold. When I tighten this nut I regulary use a big wrench and think I am feeling it by myself then. I hope you talk about the two big nuts from the steering rockers ??then
mikkel

No not the 2 big nuts on the drop arms! I am talking about the 'rocker arm cover nuts' and the 'steering colomn to steering box nuts', which the manual says should be 60ft.lbs (81Nm). However my mechanic friend who helped me today, said that 60Nm was tight enough, so that is what we did.

First we gave all the shims a coating of gasket sealer then bolted it up, even managing to get the locking tabs to point the right way! Then we put in the seals by sliding them over a piece of plastic wrapped around the splines to stop the seals getting damaged!

So my 'new' steering box is all finished - at last!