Starter Wiring and Solenoid Issue.

[Wee59dexta]

I have just recently fitted the fuel tank, and pipes, filled with lubricants and coolants etc, and I'm not desperate to get my Dexta barking. Ive wired the lights, ignition, regulator and flashed the dynamo (thanks to this site). I'd describe myself as a nove, always learning but the starter is beating me........

I've wired the solenoid with the live battery cable screwed to the front post on the solenoid (facing the engine). Also on that post is the yellow wire and red and white running to the starter.

On the rear post i have the lead running to the starter. (IS this an earth?) ((As per the wiring diagram))

When I depress the starter lever the switch on top of the starter makes no noise, their is no noise at all. I tried to test it and wired this switch directly from the battery and still nothing. I do not fully understand how that button works and how it 'powers' the starter motor. It just sits there with two wires......?

I admit I am a complete novice and i have no mentor. I appreciate all the help you guys give me. I'd love to get the starter going. The starter did work when i removed it, but its lay for almost 2 years/

Have i wired the solenoid etc correct?

[Brian]

The solenoid should have two large wires, one from the battery and one going to the starter motor.

The switch on the starter should have one wire that is live and comes from the ignition switch, the second goes to the small terminal on the solenoid. Not to the power terminal as you seem to have it.

When you press down on the starter lever it engages the pinion in the ring gear, when this is done the lever can push the contacts of the switch together sending current from the ignition switch, via the starter switch, to the solenoid, this switches the main power to the starter motor which should operate.

[Wee59dexta]

Thanks for the reply.

Ive both battery straps conected to the opposite posts on the solenoid. Ive the ignition wire on the small terminal running to the starter switch and the larger yellow wire connected to the larger terminal. When i switch on the ignotion there is no 'click'. the ignition light operates on the dash......

Is the solenoid self earthing, or do i need to eart it? I strpped the paint of where i screwed the solenoid to the fuel tank stand.

is my starter switch or starter bucked?

thanks again. appreciate it!!!

[Brian]

There will be no "click" until you operate the starter lever. The ignition wire should be to the starter switch and the wire from the starter switch to the solenoid terminal.

Have you got two small connections on the solenoid? Some replacement units required earthing via one of the connections others earth through the outer case.

Check your battery connections and where the earth cable contacts the chassis. You may have a good enough connection to light the lights but not good enough to work the starter.

[Wee59dexta]

Thanks for your replies. Took the starter to an old fordson mechanic, who put it on a vice, run a postive to it and.............nothing. Told me it was knackered and to look at reconditioning it or buying new. He also unwittenly answered another query I had. He said the lucas starter with the power lead attached to the side, was really rare, and that he only remembers ever seeing them on the earliest Dextas. The bloke was a mechanic for fordson back in the day and travelled all across Ireland maintaining and demonstrating the tractors to farmers and supplliers.

Now i need a starter.............. (Worked before i took it off tho)

[Bensdexta]

Now i need a starter.............. (Worked before i took it off tho)

Repair it!
It got mine rebuilt by Peter Thompson, who sells repair kits on ebay (Member ID 8617petert). Suggest you email him on:
pdt55 at tiscali.co.uk
I expect he will tell you what you need and send you a kit.

Mine had lain in the hedge for 15yrs, so yours should be a doddle

[Wee59dexta]

Thanks Bensdexta. I'm of the same mindset as you, in that I prefer to repair original parts. It's just I'm not that great with electrical things and my Dad is worse. My dad likes to buy everything new but i cant stand the repro rubbish!

I'm taking it to a motor electrician after the holidays, he works in a rural area and should have come across loads of these before. My Dad is off the opinion if it cost the same as a new one to fix, then he'll opt for a new one. But I reckon an original Lucas, repaired is got to be a lot better than a repro one anyday!

How much would you expect to pay, and just what exactly, could be the worst problem with an old starter?

Happy Christmas by the way! (Im sitting in working on my dissertation) Well at least im guaranteed no work after graduation! Wee rant there, sorry!

[Bensdexta]

How much would you expect to pay, and just what exactly, could be the worst problem with an old starter?

Damaged windings would be bad news but unlikely. You may just need new brushes or switch. Mine had new bearings as well, new rubber boot and a prime ready for repainting. IIRC cost was around £100, so a bit cheaper than a new one from Agriline but was in poor condition having been outside for 15years. As mentioned above, repair kits are readily available.

[blue32]

[blue32]

I can see of your q... that you still are some confuse of your wiring loom. Brian do explain this very good, but I can try to help alitle too.
-You have a hot pol on your battery (who deliver current to your wiring,s ( minus ) right? this is NOT negativ, for Dextas, but HOT. So the two thick main wire,s (one from minus at battery to solenoid...and second from other point of solenoid to the starter is the same...(HOT wire) For to give the starter that big "current flow" the solenoid have to work...(ON and OFF) It works becouse of the yellow wire goes from one of this (the first big hot wire screew on solenoid) and goes to your regulator A,
This point of the regulator can be together to your keyswitch, or is connected from A or A1 (functiones together) - the new wire (W/R) goes from either A or A1, to your KEY switch...and who set ON the ignition to the red wire, who goes to your starterswitch (who sitting on top of starter) andwho will get current from the red wire, when you use your starterhandle... it will send current to your solenoid. The solenoid will then go ON. and current will flow from "Hot pol" stright to the starter.

Concern to your panic for aftermarked parts I will say that not all parts from here is bad. It is often barriers to restore old wehicles, so in many cases you have not any choice. Well as I do, I,d a good look at my parts and find out how I can make the defaults better. I admit that sometimes it is difficoult, but if I talk to specialists as oures at this forum and also learn how to fix bad point at some parts, it seems that it is possible to fix almost all parts. We all should wish that the aftermarked parts was just as good as the old fabric parts, but it isnt, but I am stil happy for some of the afterpartscompanies today has good contact with this problems, and therfor I have experied good service just for this probs from the service peoples.

mikkel

[Wee59dexta]

Got my starter back today! New starting switch, armature and brushes. Went home and hooked it all up.............Still Nothing!! I have checked for power at the switch and its there, I have replaced the solenoid and ignition switch. I have rubbed the earthing points to bare metal. My starter will not work. The ignition light does not even dim when I push the starting lever. I thought that maybe the starter casing was not earthing against the bell housing because of paint, so to make sure I ran a jump lead from the starter to the ground terminal of the battery and still it wont start.

I double checked every wire and I am just about to set fire to the dexta! I am completely out of ideas, why will the starter motor not turn?

Has anybody had experience of this before? Thanks for your help again.............

[blue32]

Hi, it was dam hard to find out ?? vell I think you have to check your solenoid... - - pull off all wires on the solenoid. (let it be eartth,d in ground as usual) Take a wire from your hot terminal on your battery and hold it onto the smallest terminal upon top of it... measure between the two big terminal,s at solenoid, (you should now have over 12 volt over them.
Tell us after....
blue32

[Wee59dexta]

Update! Just back in from the shed. Bit the bullet and placed a ring spanner between the two solenoid posts - Starter turned and the engined turned over, wee puff of smoke and everything!!

Now i rigged up a light phase tester and one wire at the starter switch is permanent live, and the other becomes live when the starter handle is pressed. Checked the switch wire at the solenoid end and current is definately passing to this point. This is how it should be. No click from solenoid and no current at the starter live terminal. It has to be the solenoid (Again)

All wires and switches are working exept the solenoid bought from ..........

Thanks for all your help, I was anxious of arcing the solenoid posts but I had to know why nothing was happening. Im not sure now if my starter needed overhauled or not......... but i suppose it wont do it any har

[dexta roadless]

some solenoids were supplied with two sets of windings like the solenoid at a normal starter. One is an action winding and the other is a holding winding. The action winding is the one which is pulling the contact and that is earthed trough the terminal wich goes to the starter. The holding winding is not strong enough to overcome the spring inside and so pull the switch. So if you connect the two big wires opposite it won't work. Try to swap those two wires

[Wee59dexta]

Update. My Tractor started!!!!!!!!!! Fitted an original solenoid with the button. Started for the first time in 3 years!

Thanks guys!!

Just a wee history.

Old Solenoid wiring before restoration:

DSCF0262 by Skidancer1, on Flickr

New One which did not work;

SAM_0372 by Skidancer1, on Flickr

And original button type, which works:

DSCF2303 by Skidancer1, on Flickr

[dexta roadless]

congratulations"!!

[Subsonic]

Hy Guys,
Having the same trouble with my mates, RIGHT>>>>>
Looking at the PICTURE that he said DOES WORK,, what are the WIRES GOING TO<< and what wire goes to the SMALL blade on the SOLENIODE: To RECAP what wires go to the SOLENIOD and where do they COME FROM:: oh Dear::::

The PRESS button SOLENIOD is EXACTLY the SAME: it is a 1960 DEXTA:
Thanks in advance Lads:

[Subsonic]

All sorted now guys, what a nice load of blokes on here, (See My Other Thread):
It is going like the clappers, my mate was really chuffed, So was I..
Its great to know that people on this Forum will try their damnest to stick with your problem:
Long may this forum keep going, as it does bring like minded people a lot of pleasure:
Thank you:
Colin:UK.

[pbufton]

The push button solenoid, i'm assuming you manually push the button whilst pushing the starter lever to engage the starter? This making the red wire from the starter switch derelict.

I too am using the same solenoid as your new one which didn't work, I can get the starter to engage by crossing the terminals with a screwdriver, but nothing otherwise, no clicking, nothing.

If i cross the battery lead terminal to the little red wire terminal, that spins the starter too.

Done a continuity test on the starter switch, and when i push the lever down I have continuity there, so its no that causing troubles.

Using a new wiring loom which is wired as per the workshop manual, only with the Lighting circuit wires taped up.

Got a brand new solenoid coming in the morning, hoping this will solve my problems but im not holding my breath

[PghBill]

If i cross the battery lead terminal to the little red wire terminal, that spins the starter too.

If you are jumping the battery lead to the terminal with the red wire and your starter is turning. That indicates to me that your solenoid is working properly. Just not getting voltage thru your starter switch .
Try putting a volt meter on the red wire and see if you get voltage when you depress the starter lever. If not, your wiring is not right somewhere.

[pbufton]

hmmm...valid point. im waiting on a new keyswitch/light switch to arrive from agriline along with a few other bits, so its still not 100% wired in.

However this afternoon, spotted a huge crack in the block under the exhaust manifold, so commenced stripdown. The rewire will have to wait a few weeks

[pbufton]

A bit of an afterthought, but what voltage regulators are you using? I have a Lucas spade type VR.

Someone mentioned to me the other day that using the wrong type of VR may be causing the starter solenoid not to engage

[PghBill]

I still have the original voltage regulator in my 62 Super.
The starter and voltage regulator are not connected together anywhere in the original wiring other than the common feed from Battery terminal on the light switch. One should have no effect on the other.

[pbufton]

Ah ok. thanks bill

[Subsonic]

f you are jumping the battery lead to the terminal with the red wire and your starter is turning. That indicates to me that your solenoid is working properly. Just not getting voltage through your starter switch .
Try putting a volt meter on the red wire and see if you get voltage when you depress the starter lever. If not, your wiring is not right somewhere.

Hi Mate, That was EXACTLY the same problem I had So:::
Find on your Regulator the Voltage OUT when you turn the Key ON: I was only getting 4 volts,, So checked it with a meter and connected to the 12Volt AFTER the key is turned, hoping this is making sense, only just got out the mire myself, but this was my problem anyway:
Colin:UK.